On loot mechanics and fat-reduction, or was it fate?

Speedruns were kinda problem, but current solution (reduce fat, reduce exp; all in percentage of total slain HP) is making all missions Purge-like, and it shouldn't be so... From another game, a good example:

D2, of course: had some speedruns, mostly for the high ilvl drops, but also for exp (while applicable)... BUT! If/when bored, player could just switch to another map, without losing anything. Exp, loot - all there.

Inquisitor: can't leave because of (endless disgrace and) losing of Grand Reward. Less-than-purge results in lower exp/fate, while taking more time than unsuccessful purge, which would give same exp/fate, no Grand Reward though.

NeoCore is aware of this, but (paraphrasing) "we'll throw some item here and there". Please be CAREFUL! Current item-replacement/time curve is very good. While adding something, please remove the same from a Grand Reward. 

Player is now enforced to do near-purge. He should be *motivated* instead. As in, "if I clear the map, something good might happen" (and I'll get full reward). 

Snakefist, in His Wisdom, suggests:

- reduce purge/speedrun ratio to max 50%, and min 25%

- add Grand Reward items into chests (replacing trash-whites/blues/basic materials fount inthem now), and remove them from Grand Reward - just a few, but perhaps the best one (purple, if rolled)

- add *anything* worthy clearing the map - Massacre acc-exp bonus, Unbreakable acc-exp bonus (not much, but noticeable at current acc-level - 2-3% of needed quantity for level; possibility to have more acc-exp from mission than listed, but not much); award secondary objectives completing; make a bounty for fate (last two for fate, first for acc-exp)

- spawn random powerful elites(s), as it was in VH; add decent drop (or exp) to these as a secondary

- something along these lines - you are aware already!

TL;DR

...You know He cannot allow this; everyone claiming *any* kind of knowledge of aRPG mechanics AND wanting to "add salt" to His Mighty Train-of-thoughts (tm) has to read the text in it's completeness. Sorry, Dave...

Mighty Snakefist, in His Vast Experience, acknowledges the legitimacy of stopping speed-run mechanic; He points out NOT to influence the time/improvement curve, because it's good now; He strongly suggests "reward" over "enforce" approach; Oh, what a wise friend is Snakefist...

Since aRPG mechanics, we might as well forget the dice damage and just have DPS comparable with shields. As component, hmmmmm, perhaps one with knockback, animation could look nice and 'organic' - so far the best ones belong to Hammers. Or give some block/protection as shields.

But apart from skills and their codex connections - those could be 'affix items', carrying what weapons or shield not normally have (+Attributes, for example - not a mandatory roll, but with a chance to get; something along those lines).

Coming from aRPG background doesn't allow good or relevant solution for something like "hits last" - its existence was even unknown to me!

But, initially there were only shield + one-handers, and later dual-wield is added, but much is still missing (such as key remapping for both keyboard and mouse etc.)

Idea was to make something that would "behave" like a suppression shield - '1' is block, and '2' is AoE, both having no need for precise pointing (well, if we suppose that we block something infront of us, not quickly turning around and such ideas).

Main idea is a that fire-and-forget, target "Self" mechanism found on Shields (which I honestly find more useful for melee builds with '1' and '2' keybinding), could be an useful and provide flavour.

Most people here (probably >90%) know more of actual WH40k skills then I do. Perhaps that "hits last" mechanic could be simulated though a cooldowns, or delayed onset on action - there's some Lighting Fist that could, for instance, activate mentioned Lighting in, example, 2 sec after skill is used?

Anyhow, whole Fist thing seemed reasonably iconic for WH40k, and perhaps should be there anyway. 

The propositions of actual skills on Fists are more than welcome, and I'm sure that people who know WH40k more intimately could come up with some...

As clearly said, this is Snakefist's own Train of Thoughts. Though Snakefist snakeself would be happy to discuss any rational and constructive post, even admit that He is wrong if that unique occasion happens...

This time He'll answer only about 'Casuals' - potential buyers of this game are divided into three main groups, each treated with equal respect. Point of dividing them was according to their expectations of the game. 

In recent time, Early Access date is set, luckily there is no Story planned yet - but if there were, Casuals would be extremely unhappy with any Story-related bugs. They will be merciless toward coop bugs too, so frequent in current build and they will be likely to leave bad reviews and hurt the sales.

Snakefist snakeself is anything but 'casual player'.

Mighty Snakefist, Game suggestions, in no particular order

QoL - Inventory, usually for weapons, gets full, another Reward window pops up, player clicks Claim, there is a message, player clicks again to remove - get rid of one message appearance/approval

Itemization - Powerfist, in its variants - many weapons exist in their dual-wielding capabilities, yet only shields are constructed as PRIMARY off-hand items, and function as intended (other weapon often has some difficulties). As Powerfists are worthy addition to a WH40k-based game, Snakefist (in His Wisdom) proposes them added and designed in the manner similar to shields, as the primary off-hand

QoL - side quest tooltips - add a very short description next to their name. Currently, it is unknown what they do, and simple "Activate all three shrines, to decrease enemy HP by 10%" would make player aware what he is doing and why

Visuals - remove some clutter in Endless Mission from time to time. After a certain times, the amount of remains is so large that players can't see... anything

Snakefist would suspect other, uglier things - He doubts that those downvoters have read even the first paragraph, let alone whole stuff. They play "follow the leader". Lack of arguments for disagreement is enough proof for that. 

Mighty Snakefist, in His Wisdom, doesn't care for that at all - he is known to devs, and they in all the likeness read his stuff, at least some of them. He will continue this thread, no matter how many negative votes he gets.

This is posted in another tread, but Mighty Snakefist will qoute Snakeself and put it here, too. Because it's worthy of Mordor!

On The Well of Wisdom that is D2, wrongdoing explained:

- Farming, and exp/hour - there was, or could have been, but never important. Why? Huge exp / level demand (10x) making builds basically ending there, at 85th 

- No stupid paragons at all

- Additional levels, though possible (oh, Snakefist knows so much of that) aren't a game requirement, because good items >>> level99 (which is the hard-cap level, and there's no Paragons which are there, and everyone has them, and they use exactly for nothing if summed up)

There will be grinding!

We are all expecting it. It wouldn't be an aRPG is there wouldn't. But, what to grind?

Exp grind is happening, but is hardly a memorable thing. So, less noticeable it is, the better. Item tiers are excellent for this - jump-start and start item-grinding faster (and somewhat harder). We all have done exp-grinding, but aren't proud of it.

And there's the exact point where 'youtube guy' type of characters appear, in games such as D3. (Snakefist thinks of one especially irritant one, one who fancied himself a player and used nothing but abuses, but was a crappy player otherwise - Snakefist saw his micro, Emprah protect from having that - and enough about him, he's not worthy).

There, the youth of today, or rather 5 years ago since D3 popularity declines constantly, could have and did see the 'newest exploits', which was the enterance in the Endless Fun of exp/hour Paragon grinding.

What is 'fun grinding', then?

Items. Unpredictable drops that happen during gameplay. Snakefist can mostly remember where exactly he got his Mighty Gear, even that tree-trunk which gave him The Precious (Perfect Blue item, he can't stress enough how important is *not* having completely useless tiers of items). The ecstasy of seeing unidentified Unique drop. The hope during opening Mighty Inventory and the joy or disappointment upon seeing item, or it's stats.

THOSE are memorable moments, and 'this is the pre-drawn path where I grinded 10 zillion exp using the 'Baba-Yaga's quickened route+ v.2.01', which I found (of course) on youtube.

Item drops can't be found on youtube. Nobody can teach you how to abuse RNG. In that part, even repeatable Mephisto-runs were fun. What is completely unfun is having a 'Set Dungeon' where complete sets can and must be found - they were so painful to collect in D2 (most were completed by trade) and too easy in D3. Fan service. It was *done* because spoiled players *demanded* it and they got no joy from having it.

Item drops in Inquisitor?

Well... We are kinda testing endgame or open world or whatever. But fond remembrance of founding item on End Mission screen - well... Well well... There's that part with blueprints and chests, a tiny bit better. Tiny.

Tarot is currently most fun item grind Inquisitor can offer - player *needs* to grind for those, both for directive and if he wants some extra (mission bonus is fun that way), then playing WITH FRIENDS - that was reason Mighty Snakefist reacted so quickly and uncompromisingly on the Fate change - the arbitrary best part of the game was 'nerfed'. 

It is a thing that CAN be remembered (and later lovingly cherished) - 'I was playing with my own build which I chose by *myself* and got experience (seamlessly) and Fate, without omnipotent youtube-recipe, and then found friends from Cabal and then we played Tarot TOGETHER (not everyone paying the same, so someone could work for the Emprah overtime, and everyone feels connected to each other and to Emprah and the founding that-famous-item, even if it is on the on the End Mission screen).

Can be done ALONE, too(higher price since no friends, but manageable still. And still memorable.

And the Youtube-Guy and His Many Exploits can be ignored completely - in fact, wherever someone post quickest-leveling guide, devs can see it clearly and adjust the game to become more balanced.

Mobs and bosses - we saw what careless and clueless devs can do with, how they changed it in many, many patches and how it's still worthless (in D3, of course) - first, we'll farm Act-bosses, then no - we'll farm random Elites, then no - now we'll farm maps and small mobs (not unlike Purge, in result), and then we'll starting with 'inventions' such is Adventure Map (oh, so like the Teleports in D2, but they are Adventure Map, The Feature). And others. There is *some* quality in the current state of game, but weight of the incorrectable mistakes is too great.

Balance would be somewhere inbetween, Snakefist suspects, rationally. Something is achieved by grinding (Fate) then spent giving at least *some* result and something is crafted, and something is mob/elite (or boss) connected.

ADDITIONS: 

- Exploits exist and will continue to exist. Even now, He, in His Endless Proficiency, found one. Thing is not making them overpowered.

- Finishing Missions or Investigations brings too little joy - Regular and Blurd, sometimes a useful Green. Best thing that could be found is a Blueprint. By definition, not good enough - current typical gameplay is:

- Snakefist finishes a number of missions, without even looking at 'rewards'

- When Mighty Inventory is full, Snakefist mercilessly scraps all Regulars and Blues, throws a short look at Greens and mostly scraps them all, too